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Another Perspective

Elliot Harrison

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142 replies to this topic

#41 xen

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:21 PM

Fools Gold won a National Championship....and carried that team on his back most of the season.

I hope all you guys are right about Mahomes......The more I watch the tape on him the more I see receivers fighting for 50:50 balls....

That said, Elway had plenty of the same issues when in college.

w


Meh. We'll see on Watson. I think he needs more work than mahomes and will ultimately be much more limited as a qb. I think his ceiling is Alex Smith. That said he does know how to win. But he will be limited. Maybe he gets lucky and fell in The right situation like Russell wilson, but that guy is limited too.

The national championship winning qb is very rarely the best NFL prospect. Hell, most of them never even got a sniff. Cam Newton probably the obvious exception. Maybe raper, i mean Winston. Here are all your winners going back to 2000.

Watson
Cardale Jones
JT Barrett
Winston
AJ McCarran
Cam Newton
Greg McElroy
Tim Tebow
Matt Flynn
Chris Leak
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Matt Mauck/Leinart
Craig Krenzel
Ken Dorsey
Josh Heupel

#42 liquidfriend

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:27 PM

And people love to bitch about Cam Newton



#43 xen

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:30 PM

And people love to bitch about Cam Newton

Yep. One thing I like about mahomes over Watson is he scrambles not to gain yards but stays behind the line with his eyes downfield ala rapistberger. And then either makes a crazy play nobody else can make or a boneheaded throw. IF Andy can teach him to know when to throw the ball away he will have something. Give maclin or hill time to get open on the scramble drill and he will wreck defenses.

#44 PhataLerror

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:36 PM

It was a high price, but pundits are almost always wrong about these players and how they will perform.

What's the difference between the doom-and-gloom assessments of the pundits (who at least have probability heavily on their side) and the butterflies-and-rainbows-and-unicorns assessments of the Chiefs' fans whose sole basis for being happy right now rests on the fact that the Chiefs merely traded up to take a quarterback?

 

Do you realize that most of the exuberance and optimism about the quarterback position would exist to an almost identical measure whether the Chiefs had drafted Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, Kizer, Webb, Beathard, or Dobbs? In fact most Chiefs fans don't really have a basis for being happy other than that they equate the high cost of drafting their quarterback with the likelihood that Smith won't be quarterbacking in one or two years. In fact, if the Chiefs had managed to get Mahomes for a third-round pick, they probably wouldn't be as happy because the draft pedigree of the quarterback wouldn't make almost certain their eventual elevation to starting quarterback.

 

The happiness is about what won't be the case in the near future, not about what's actually coming.



#45 PhataLerror

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:38 PM

Dak Prescott had more yards and TD's than Alex Smith, Smith will be replaced this year.

Prescott is going to slump this year, and if the Cowboys don't make the post-season with the NFC's weakest division-winning record, they won't make the playoffs at all. Of all the things I might say about 2017, put me down for that prediction: That team lost much of the support that allowed Prescott to do what Prescott did.



#46 liquidfriend

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:39 PM

Do you realize that most of the exuberance and optimism about the quarterback position would exist to an almost identical measure whether the Chiefs had drafted Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, Kizer, Webb, Beathard, or Dobbs?

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

 

The attitude would be more sour if they moved two 1's and a 3 for a younger Alex (Watson) or they decided to take a limp approach to it with a Kizer, Beathard or Dobbs.  You are so unbelievably wrong that it's hilarious.



#47 NChiefsCorner

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:52 PM

A good OL and RB takes a lot of pressure off a QB, Dak will succeed because he has both.


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#48 PhataLerror

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:55 PM

I don't understand the contention that since Mahomes isn't ready to start, he's not worth investing in.  Favre wasn't ready to start his initial year or so.  Even Elway didn't light it up his first year.  Reid and Dorsey think Mahomes will be a starter in two (maybe one) year and took the risk to nab him.  I'm not one of the Alex haters.  He's helped turn this team from a consistent loser into one of the winningest regular season teams in the last four years.  But two years from now, he won't be the starter and the Chiefs have two choices.  Take another backup or develop a QBOTF.  Mahomes has the best raw skills of this year's class.  He may very well fail, but it won't be because he isn't ready to start this year.  Smith will win more games than anyone else the Chiefs could come up with THIS YEAR.  Now the Chiefs have a chance to win more games after Smith is gone.  Pretty simple.

There's a huge gap between 'catching up to NFL speeds' and 'having the skills and intangibles to compete in the NFL'. There's a difference between looking like an NFL player on an NFL field trying to make NFL throws but looking a tick slow, and looking like a collegiate athlete on an NFL field hopelessly outclassed by the opposing team. John Elway was deemed NFL ready. Brett Favre, as I recall, was a second-round selection taken at a time when a dysfunctional Falcons franchise was wavering over their previous selection of Chris Miller 13th-overall in the 1987 draft, but the Falcons had their first winning season and first post-season win with Miller that season. There's plenty of good stuff to read about how Brett Favre came to be a Packer instead.

 

The point is that the Chiefs have just set a new high-water mark for when a not-ready-to-play-in-the-NFL quarterback should be taken.



#49 PhataLerror

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:57 PM

A good OL and RB takes a lot of pressure off a QB, Dak will succeed because he has both.

Actually, if you were watching free agency, Dak has lost much of what made his offensive line great. With less of a line, Elliot won't look so good. With a less effective Elliot, more will fall on Prescott than he will be ready to carry.



#50 liquidfriend

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 10:00 PM

The point is that the Chiefs have just set a new high-water mark for when a not-ready-to-play-in-the-NFL quarterback should be taken.

We didn't draft Mark Sanchez.  Stop being a dumbass.



#51 NChiefsCorner

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 10:12 PM

I must have missed the Cowboys losing most of their OL in free agency, FAKE NEWS!



#52 DieHard

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 12:33 AM

What's the difference between the doom-and-gloom assessments of the pundits (who at least have probability heavily on their side) and the butterflies-and-rainbows-and-unicorns assessments of the Chiefs' fans whose sole basis for being happy right now rests on the fact that the Chiefs merely traded up to take a quarterback?

Do you realize that most of the exuberance and optimism about the quarterback position would exist to an almost identical measure whether the Chiefs had drafted Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, Kizer, Webb, Beathard, or Dobbs? In fact most Chiefs fans don't really have a basis for being happy other than that they equate the high cost of drafting their quarterback with the likelihood that Smith won't be quarterbacking in one or two years. In fact, if the Chiefs had managed to get Mahomes for a third-round pick, they probably wouldn't be as happy because the draft pedigree of the quarterback wouldn't make almost certain their eventual elevation to starting quarterback.

The happiness is about what won't be the case in the near future, not about what's actually coming.


I don't know. Chiefs fans were dysfunctional Ng for a first round QB. It's the smart thing to do even though I was wanting more immediate help. If we hadn't of done it, we would likely be looking to trade for someone's backup next year or extending Smith. Both of which would turn fans off and likely not result in a Super Bowl.

It's unlikely that Mahomes will be elite, but they are taking that shot. I like it. And the fans seemed pretty aligned on Mahomes. I don't think Webb or Dobbs would have had the same reaction and optimism.

#53 West

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:02 AM

Agree DH....

 

Time will tell if it was worth 2 first rounders.....I am really glad you guys are so confident now in Dorsey and Reid too.

 

That's the one thing that makes me feel better, I trust Dorsey's judgement.

 

w



#54 PhataLerror

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:12 AM

I must have missed the Cowboys losing most of their OL in free agency, FAKE NEWS!

Doug Free retired. They lost another through free agency. They lost a lot of defensive players.

 

Prescott will have to do more this year than he did last year. I'm sorry that you weren't actually paying attention.



#55 PhataLerror

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:14 AM

How about we just let it play out and see who turns out to be right. ;)

That's what this thread is for. A reminder in perpetuity. It's apparent which users have taken which sides, and to what degree of cocksureness they expressed their opinions.



#56 robgar

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:47 AM

hrmmm 65 % of a god awfull number of passes..  velocity in the 60 mph range, I.e true cannon.. Can throw 50 60 yds in the air off his back foot.. Some of this stuff will clean up quite a bit..

Quite easily.. I dont think he's that much of a project, just needs to season a bit.. I really think you have a guy.. who can scramble, and then trhow the ball 75 80 yds down hill, to hill  ;)

 

The running back.. the comparisom to tyreek aint right .. this guys a 4.5 4.6 kinda guy, who just wont go down, and refuses to fumble. who can catch a pass.. more like Emitt Smith than anything else.

 

The freak, cuz everybody who plays on our dline is a freak of nature, can go learn handfighting from tamba, and take his rightfull place with the other freaks of nature on the dline..



#57 dhitter

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:24 AM

Fools Gold won a National Championship....and carried that team on his back most of the season.

 

I hope all you guys are right about Mahomes......The more I watch the tape on him the more I see receivers fighting for 50:50 balls....

 

That said, Elway had plenty of the same issues when in college.

 

w

Mehhh....how many quarterbacks of the national college champion have gone on to be great in the NFL? Even Todd Blackledge was a QB on a national championship team. I think that played heavily into why the Chiefs picked him over say Moreno. Winning a national championship is nice....but its just one game vs an entire body of work. Few people had to carry the load as much as Mahomes did. Even more so than Watson who had a top 10 stud wide receiver just get drafted by the Chargers. Mahomes didn't have that. Clemson had a pretty solid defense. Texas Tech gave up 43.5 points per game. No comparison.



#58 oldtimer

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 07:20 AM

Mehhh....how many quarterbacks of the national college champion have gone on to be great in the NFL? Even Todd Blackledge was a QB on a national championship team. I think that played heavily into why the Chiefs picked him over say Moreno. Winning a national championship is nice....but its just one game vs an entire body of work. Few people had to carry the load as much as Mahomes did. Even more so than Watson who had a top 10 stud wide receiver just get drafted by the Chargers. Mahomes didn't have that. Clemson had a pretty solid defense. Texas Tech gave up 43.5 points per game. No comparison.

 

 

your right the Ntl Championship did help Blackledge's cause but they got to the game n the back of their RB Curt Warner.TB made one great throw and barely beat Herschel Walker's Bulldogs..but I remember Moreno's big Negative  in the Chief's eyes was that he showed up  to an interview late & in flip flops and a Hawaiian type shirt..that wasn't going to fly with  Mr Hunt/Jack Steadman and Jim Schaaf & newly acquired  HC John Mackovic..Marv Levy woulda took him no doubt in my mind.

 

Mackovic was a real stick in the mud..probably the only NFL HC to have an open revolt by the players and be fired after a playoff season

 

at least thats how I remember it



#59 Spfdchiefsfan

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:53 PM

Ok, I'm just going to make a comment on the logic.  We gave up 2 first rounders for Mahommes?  How?  We gave up one first rounder next year, and used our first round pick this year on him.  We did not LOSE 2 first round picks to get this guy, we lost one.  This argument might be the dumbest thread ever.  Right now, NOBODY knows how Mahommes is going to be.  Until there is some tangible evidence, i will sit back and watch to see how he performs.  None of you know even a 10th of what the people that do this for a living do about football or scouting players(except formmerdb maybe).  Enjoy the ride guys and let's see how it all plays out!



#60 Goldbrick

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 03:16 PM

Used one 1st rounder to pick him, and gave another one to Buffalo.  That adds up to 2 first round picks plus the third.






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