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I didn't know anything about these

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#21 oldtimer

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:18 PM

The hell with everything else, that gout shit is going to curb your alcohol consumption.

Take care of yourself and do whats required. I actually listened to my doc after my Achilles surgery and it's healing a hell of a lot better than both of my shoulders did.

 

 

Dr said take Naproxin and Beer is bad.. not much of a Beer drinker but  did drink some STAG  last week.. I think I'l blame that LOL



#22 BroncoStud

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:37 PM

You know how I know when you've been triggered?

You use the word "brah" in your reply. This little pejorative belies your supposed thoughtful and informed opinions. It becomes about you and the individual who disagrees with you instead of the topic at hand.

In other words, you care more about asserting your opinions, rather than discussing a topic or idea. Its quite counterproductive to the idea of a message board.

My rebuttal was easy to understand, question everything because that is what intelligent people do.  The "brah" was for you, not me, because I know you like it so much.

 

If anyone is triggered it isn't hard to see which of us is dude.  Hint:  the one citing X-Files as a talking point.



#23 reesebobby

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:53 PM

My mom gets gout. Cherry juice may help you. It does her. It somehow helps with the uric acid.
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#24 Mloe68

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:20 PM

little by little, inch by inch, the progressives will destroy our liberty

 

did you hear schumer today?

 

what an uniformed, lying buffoon.

Even as a Libertarian I certainly do think we should be able to look at issues like gun control in a rational way and have a solid debate over the issue. This country does need some regulation, we do need some government, taxes are not theft when properly applied, and overall one of the great strengths of our constitution is that it is amendable.Liberty does not live in a vacuum, only to be applied when convenient, but also it shouldn't be hidden behind to prevent the free expression of ideas. 



#25 oldtimer

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:36 PM

Even as a Libertarian I certainly do think we should be able to look at issues like gun control in a rational way and have a solid debate over the issue. This country does need some regulation, we do need some government, taxes are not theft when properly applied, and overall one of the great strengths of our constitution is that it is amendable.Liberty does not live in a vacuum, only to be applied when convenient, but also it shouldn't be hidden behind to prevent the free expression of ideas. 

 

 

ok start...but can we start with fool proofing to the best of our ability & enforcing the laws we have and the Checks like Back Ground checks.  This guy in Vegas bought a lot of weapons really quickly so unless he bought them illegally or from private individuals wiht  laws such as Missouri's the ATF  didn't catch it..  so other than the shooter who also shares in the responsibility of these things?  No Laws other than Australian type would of prevented this or Sandy Hook or many many others.

 

 Country regulation?..what kind are you talking about?

 

 Income Tax IS theft.. you want to tax goods & services I'll listen. I'm pro Consumer Tax myself

 

totally agree with the last Bolded



#26 West

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:07 PM

MLoe,

Good post. Zero pushback from me.

I think OT's point of starting with a review of existing laws and actual results behind them is necessary as part of the dialogue.

One issue I have is that Chicago has some of the most rigorous gun control laws on the books and people are being shot there
at record numbers. I think laws are a critically important aspect of a civilized society, but they need to be meaningful or they
serve no real purpose.

w

#27 Mloe68

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:38 PM

ok start...but can we start with fool proofing to the best of our ability & enforcing the laws we have and the Checks like Back Ground checks.  This guy in Vegas bought a lot of weapons really quickly so unless he bought them illegally or from private individuals wiht  laws such as Missouri's the ATF  didn't catch it..  so other than the shooter who also shares in the responsibility of these things?  No Laws other than Australian type would of prevented this or Sandy Hook or many many others.

 

 Country regulation?..what kind are you talking about?

 

 Income Tax IS theft.. you want to tax goods & services I'll listen. I'm pro Consumer Tax myself

 

totally agree with the last Bolded

First off let me be clear. I'm not anti gun, I'm pro constitution. I'm simply saying we need to examine what is done around the world and figure out what might actually work here and debate that. i have no specific plan other than this. I just know the right to bear arms is already tangibly restricted, as it should be. The Australian system is the one I have heard about most to date.  That said, its extremely far fetched to believe a crazy man is going to be stopped by any gun laws.  I get that and agree 100 percent. 

 

I'm not opposed to a consumption tax although realistically a flat tax on income is more logical and easier to budget and I do not believe that is theft.  The way the Federal Reserve devalues our money however does qualify. Likewise none of it matters if we do not get our budget deficit under control. Expanding the military by yet another President is just plain mind boggling. And its our foreign policy itself which is the root of many of the terrorist attacks against Americans already. This is not just about guns. I just want us too look hard at the issue as well as many others. Right now everything is being lost in the noise between radical sides that get us nowhere. 



#28 Mloe68

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:41 PM

MLoe,

Good post. Zero pushback from me.

I think OT's point of starting with a review of existing laws and actual results behind them is necessary as part of the dialogue.

One issue I have is that Chicago has some of the most rigorous gun control laws on the books and people are being shot there
at record numbers. I think laws are a critically important aspect of a civilized society, but they need to be meaningful or they
serve no real purpose.

w

Completely agree and Chicago has indeed become a snapshot of what isn't working. There are a lot of laws out there we simply do not need and it keeps police from spending time on the ones we actually do. There has to be some middle ground here on gun control that does make sense. I don't think arming everyone in America is the best course of action, but if someone can show evidence otherwise, I'm listening.



#29 Semo

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:56 PM

There is no point in trying to have rational discussion about gun control. Both sides have to be rational. Pipe dreams. We all know that the Left will not compromise on anything. ALL of their demands have to be met or they will continue with their propaganda infinitely.

Similar stance from gun rights advocates, although not as radical. I am not moving an inch on 2A. Because everything with the left is a slippery slope. Concede any at all and they will just keep moving the pylon. I ain’t bitin’.

#30 Semo

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:00 PM

As for taxation, the personal income tax, via 16A and the Fed is f’ing criminal and began the end of this nation. Legal theft and a middle class killer.

#31 BroncoStud

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:22 PM

Apparently he was a multimillionaire, which makes it weirder. Guy was in the twilight years of his life with all the resources to kick back and do whatever he wanted without stress. Something had to have snapped upstairs. I have a feeling that as the fbi digs into his life, some big demons are going to show themselves.

That is very strange...  A millionaire with like two pictures taken of himself EVER, in his 60's, carrying a small army up to a hotel room in Vegas, that employs a state of the art security system, married to a foreigner who has used 2 SSNs (this has since been retracted by Newsweek), and is also married to another man...  This whole situation is stranger than fiction.



#32 oldtimer

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:35 PM

That is very strange...  A millionaire with like two pictures taken of himself EVER, in his 60's, carrying a small army up to a hotel room in Vegas, that employs a state of the art security system, married to a foreigner who has used 2 SSNs, and is also married to another man...  This whole situation is stranger than fiction.

 

where do you get this? 



#33 BroncoStud

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:37 PM

where do you get this? 

It looks like Newsweek had to retract the SSN part because of an error in their research, so that may not be the case.

 

http://www.dailywire...s-james-barrett


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#34 mex

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:20 PM

Even as a Libertarian I certainly do think we should be able to look at issues like gun control in a rational way and have a solid debate over the issue. This country does need some regulation, we do need some government, taxes are not theft when properly applied, and overall one of the great strengths of our constitution is that it is amendable.Liberty does not live in a vacuum, only to be applied when convenient, but also it shouldn't be hidden behind to prevent the free expression of ideas. 

If we are to value liberty, we had better be able to distinguish laws and regulations that have a chance to succeed, and are therefore viable, to those that have no chance.

 

We must especially be diligent when politicians 'come together' to reduce liberty during and after a crisis. This is when the most damage is done, because when people feel insecure, they are most likely to agree to legislation that makes them feel more secure.

 

Prohibition never works. It didn't with alcohol, it hasn't with drugs, and it won't with firearms. 

 

Make no mistake... the goal of schumer and his progressive ilk is not a narrow target of 'assault' rifles... their goal is complete control of all firearms through registration, taxation, and eventually confiscation.

 

It is clearly a three pronged assault, and they are getting closer and closer to their objective.

 

Anyone who thinks this is not the true endgame for the progressives is kidding themselves.



#35 mex

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:26 PM

 I'm simply saying we need to examine what is done around the world

Totally disagree. Same thing I hear about healthcare. "We need to be more like Europe."

 

Respectfully, I don't give a rat's ass what the rest of the world does, or thinks.

 

I suppose one could look at China... or Cuba... as gun-free 'safe' societies.

 

But we all know it's not just about safety... 



#36 oldtimer

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:57 PM

Totally disagree. Same thing I hear about healthcare. "We need to be more like Europe."

 

Respectfully, I don't give a rat's ass what the rest of the world does, or thinks.

 

 

 

 

This ^^^^



#37 robgar

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:05 PM

There are things that work and there are things that don't for gods sake don't look too Europe for an answer. Though there are in some places reasonable answers to some questions. Europe as a whole is rather screwed up.

#38 robgar

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:06 PM

There are things that work and there are things that don't for gods sake don't look too Europe for an answer. Though there are in some places reasonable answers to some questions. Europe as a whole is rather screwed up.

#39 Mloe68

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:59 PM

Totally disagree. Same thing I hear about healthcare. "We need to be more like Europe."

Respectfully, I don't give a rat's ass what the rest of the world does, or thinks.

I suppose one could look at China... or Cuba... as gun-free 'safe' societies.

But we all know it's not just about safety...

Notion we shouldn't examine what works and what doesn't around the world is makes no sense. We've got ridiculously expensive health care, rampant violent citizen vs citizen gun crime, a declining education system, ect, ect. We don't do it better than anyone else and need to examine everything we do and how we can do it better. A conversation that currently doesn't exist because both major parties are so dug in to their own special interest. Talk about the inhibition of liberty when we can't even legitimately look at all alternative options. And that certainly includes how we apply the second amendment. It's not a catch all that allows people to arm themselves however they want. Or heck maybe someone can show us why it should.

#40 mex

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 02:36 PM

Notion we shouldn't examine what works and what doesn't around the world is makes no sense. We've got ridiculously expensive health care, rampant violent citizen vs citizen gun crime, a declining education system, ect, ect. We don't do it better than anyone else and need to examine everything we do and how we can do it better. A conversation that currently doesn't exist because both major parties are so dug in to their own special interest. Talk about the inhibition of liberty when we can't even legitimately look at all alternative options. And that certainly includes how we apply the second amendment. It's not a catch all that allows people to arm themselves however they want.

Not sure we haven't examined it M.

 

The reason these socialist utopias have been able to afford social medicine is more complicated than what meets the eye.

 

Everyone looks to Denmark and Scandinavia as pillars of compassion that we should emulate. The truth is, there are many reasons Europe has been able to temporarily afford these social programs, but there are two very obvious ones:

 

1. Most of these countries have no defense budget. Why? Because the hardworking US taxpayer, and the brave US soldier, have been defending them for the last 75 years. Denmark has a defense budget smaller than Angola.

2. Most of these Scandinavian countries have the average size and population not much bigger than the state of Maryland. The sheer scale of the US in population and size makes it an inappropriate comparison.

 

When you look at the USSR (US-sized nation) they made it less than 80 years before they collapsed into the financial abyss. And that was after they killed tens of millions of their own citizens. The other comparable country, China, is on the verge of financial collapse as well. They have virtually no middle class, they've wrecked their environment because they are taking dangerous shortcuts, desperately trying to boost their failing economy. They've finally embraced the free market, sort of, because it's their only hope. But since their statism is unsustainable, their people will never enjoy the fruits of their labor... which as a libertarian, you should know MUST HAPPEN for any economy to thrive.

 

You have some great points M and as you get to know most of us regulars you'll see that by and large we lean libertarian. Imagine if we could cut our defense budget in half, by pulling out of Afghan, Iraq, Syria, and everywhere else we aren't wanted or needed. Imagine if we could cut social entitlements back by 50% and force people to make the choice of work or poverty? Imagine if we had term limits so lawmakers were not in permanent campaign mode, which would free them up to make difficult decisions that are long overdue. Imagine if we were able to live on a budget, and if our children were not saddled with the burden of 137 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

 

If we could fix those problems by kicking out the socialists, and if we could introduce the free market into healthcare like it was before medicare was introduced, the entire healthcare debate would be a non-issue.






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